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制高点-第19部分
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he economically powerful。 I understand; I respect that; and until India is economically powerful we are not going to be able to influence the rules of the game。 Let's take the textile trade。 Now all textile imports into America; for example; are governed by quotas。 Every country is allocated a certain quota。 It's not free trade。 It's managed trade。 America is free to sell textiles to us; but we are not free to sell textiles to America。
JAIRAM RAMESH,印度国大党的高级经济顾问,1991 – 1998:事实是游戏的规则向有利于经济强国的方面倾斜。我可以理解。 我认为直到印度成为一个经济强国,否则我们无法影响游戏规则的制定。让我们来看一看纺织品贸易。比如,现在所有要进口到美国的纺织品都要受配额的限制。每个国家被分配一定数量的配额。
NARRATOR: Developing countries forged a negotiating bloc to make Western markets more open。
旁白:发展中国家组成了一个谈判集团以迫使西方更加开放他们的市场。
DELEGATE: This should not be a time when big countries; strong countries; the world's wealthiest countries; are setting about a process designed to enrich themselves。
代表:这不应该是那些大国,强盛的国家,世界上最富有的国家开始一个为了使他们自己更富有的过程的时候。
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Chapter 17: Failure at the Summit '4:58'
第十七章: 峰会的失败
NARRATOR: Bill Clinton had been a leading proponent of expanded trade; but the protests forced him into a political corner。 A presidential election was about to begin; and Democrats needed union support。 In a speech to WTO delegates; Clinton appeared to side with the protestors on the streets。
旁白:比尔克林顿一直是贸易扩张的主要支持者,但是抗议声使他退缩到一个政治角落里,总统大选就要开始了,民主党需要工会的支持,在对世界贸易组织代表发表的一次演讲中,克林顿表现出对街头示威者的支持。
BILL CLINTON: I condemn the small number who were violent and who tried to prevent you from meeting; but I'm glad the others showed up; because they represent millions of people who are now asking questions about whether this enterprise will in fact take us all where we want to go。
比尔克林顿:我谴责那一小部分使用暴力并阻止你们###的人,但是,我很高兴,有些人站了出来,因为他们代表了数百万正在问这样一个问题的人们:这个企业是否会把我们带到我们想要去的地方?
NEWT GINGRICH: I think his speech at Seattle was an absolute disgrace and an act of strategic defeat for him。 I think they were gearing up for the election; and appeasing the unions to elect Gore was more important than standing for free trade。
NEWT GINGRICH:我认为,在西雅图发表的这次演讲绝对是个耻辱,是他的一次战略失败。我认为,他们在为选举做调整,安抚工会,让他们支持戈尔比克林顿支持自由贸易更加重要。
NARRATOR: Clinton instructed American WTO negotiators to keep protections for key
旁白:克林顿指示美国世贸组织谈判人员,让他们尽量保护关键的美国工业部门,这次高峰会以失败而告终,所有发展中国家的领导人都发誓阻挠下一轮贸易谈判的举行,除非他们的要求被认真地考虑。
MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMAD: We believe in trade; but we didn't believe in just being a market for other people。 So when you talk about opening markets; you talk about the rich people who can manufacture goods with added value and sell them in our markets; not the other way round。
马哈蒂尔:我们相信贸易,但是,我们不想让市场仅仅是为其他人服务的市场,因此,当你们讨论开放市场的时候,你们谈论的是那些能制造具有增加值的产品并在我们的市场上销售,而不是另外一种方式。
NARRATOR: Countries like Tanzania that rely on foreign aid claimed they wouldn't need the aid; if they could only sell their products to the West。
旁白:一些象坦桑尼亚那样依赖于国外援助的国家宣布,如果他们能将自己的产品销往西方国家,他们将不再需要援助了。
BENJAMIN MKAPA; President of Tanzania: You see; we talk about a level playing field; but in fact it is very much tilted in their favor。 We would earn so much more than we are possibly getting by bilateral aid if those markets were just open to us; literally by billions。
BENJAMIN MKAPA,坦桑尼亚总统:你们知道,我们在讨论一个水平的竞赛场地,但是实际上场地大大向他们有利的方向倾斜。如果那些市场能向我们开放,那么我们所可能获得的利润要远远超过通过双边援助的数量,可能会超过数十亿。
NARRATOR: Global poverty soon became the galvanizing issue among globalization's opponents。 In the wake of Seattle; control of the protest movement began to shift from unions to a disparate network of grassroots activists。
旁白:全球贫困问题将很快成为反对全球化的重大问题,在西雅图会议之后,对抗议行动的控制开始从工会转向一个完全不同的基层激进分子的网络。
JAGGI SINGH; Activist; Canada: We're trying to move from the politics of protest to the politics of liberation。 It's not simply trying to create a kinder; gentler capitalism。 It's not simply trying to negotiate the terms of our misery; to make our misery less miserable。 It's about changing the world; it's about creating institutions; structures; and frameworks; munities and neighborhoods that are based on our values; which are values of social justice; of mutual aid; of solidarity; of direct democracy。 And we're a long way from where we want to go; but we have to start now。
JAGGI SINGH; 激进分子,加拿大:我们正试图从抗议的政治行动转向解放的政治行动,并不仅仅是要创造一个更善良、更温和的资本主义制度,也并仅仅是要就我们的艰难处境进行谈判以减轻我们的苦难,而是要改变这个世界,要以我们的价值观(社会公正、互相帮助、团结、直接民主)为基础,创造新的制度、结构、框架、社团和社区。我们还有很长的路要走,但是我们必须现在就开始行动。
Onscreen caption: World Bank/IMF meeting
Washington; ; April 2000
字幕:世界银行/国际货币基金组织会议
华盛顿特区,2000年4月
NARRATOR: One of the protestors' next targets was the World Bank; an institution whose sole purpose is to reduce poverty in developing countries。
旁白:一名抗议者的下一个抨击目标是世界银行,一个以在发展中国家消除贫困为唯一宗旨的机构。
JAMES WOLFENSOHN; President; The World Bank: When you see someone outside a barricade attacking you vehemently because of something called globalization; you have to wonder what it is they're getting at。 It enrages me when you have people who assume they have the moral high ground against a team of people here who are devoting their lives to addressing the very questions that these people claim to be addressing。
詹姆斯华盛顿,行长,世界银行:当你看到路障外面有人对你猛烈攻击,原因是一个被称之为全球化的问题,你不得不考虑他们到底是为了什么,当一群人认为他们有坚实的道德立场并用来反对一群毕生致力与解决那些他们宣称要解决的问题的时候,我感到非常愤怒。
NARRATOR: But the protests had bee impossible to ignore。 Inside the World Bank and other institutions; officials struggled to make sense of the growing debate。
旁白:抗议形势已经发展到不可忽略的地步,在世界银行和其它机构内部,官员们也在努力地试图理解这个越来越激烈的辩论。
NEMAT SHAFIK; Vice President; The World Bank: Well; the protest movement is multifaceted; and the anger is multifaceted; but there clearly is a sense of losing control and a sense of alienation。 The old structures and the old institutions and the old lines aren't working anymore; and I think we're at a stage where is this extraordinary chaos in international organizations; in international rules of the game; that we're trying to define; and we're not there yet。 And I think; like in any chaotic situation when you're in the middle of it; you don't see the way out; but I think what we're observing …… the series of protests; the series of engagements …… is part of the process of ing towards some new structure for managing a global economy。
NEMAT SHAFIK; 副行长,世界银行:这场抗议运动是多反面的,愤怒也是多方面的,但是,很明显,这里有一种失控和疏远的感觉,旧的结构、体制和阵线已经不再起作用了,而且我认为我们正处在这样一个阶段:国际组织和国际游戏规则充满了混乱,而我们正试图重心对它们加以定义,但目前我们还没能做到这一点。我认为,象处在任何混乱局势之中的时候一样,你看不到出路,但是我想我们所看到的一切——一系列的抗议、一系列的接触——都是通向某种全球经济管理新结构的过程的一部分。
Chapter 18: The Global Divide '2:33'
第十八章: 全球分裂
NARRATOR: Globalization did not cause global poverty; but it did make us more aware of it。 And by creating a single global market; it raised the question of how that market benefits the world's poorest nations。
旁白:全球化并没有导致全球贫困,但是它的确让我们更加意识到贫困的存在。而要创造单一的全球市场则提出了这样一个问题:这个市场如何能使世界上最贫穷的国家受益。
DANIEL YERGIN: We are seeing around the world a movement towards greater reliance on markets; greater confidence in markets。 But for that confidence to last it has to be seen that these markets are fair; that they are delivering the benefits widely; that people are benefiting from them。 And if they don't have that kind of legitimacy; then the confidence is not going to remain; and the markets will be vulnerable to disruption and be replaced by other kinds of controls。 So every day the market has to earn and prove its legitimacy; and that's a big test; particularly in the developing world; where the number…one issue; the central preoccupational concern; is the issue of poverty; and delivering the goods means lifting people out of poverty。 And that more than anything else is what these markets would be judged by。
DANIEL YERGIN:我们正在目睹:这个世界越来越依赖与市场并越来越对市场充满信心。但是,为了让这种信心能持续下去,人们必须看到:这些市场非常公平,获益范围非常广泛,人们普遍都能从中得到好处。如果人们看不到这样的情况,那信心就不会持久,市场将会非常脆弱,容易发生混乱并被其它种类的控制方式所取代。因此,市场每天都必须证明它的合理性。这是一个巨大的考验,尤其实在发展中国家,发展中国家的首要问题、人们最为关切的问题就是贫困问题,输送货物意味着让那里的人们脱离贫困。那么,最重要的问题是:判断这些市场的标准是什么。
JEFFREY SACHS: Professor of Economics; Harvard University: The world is more unequal than at any time in world history。 There's a basic reason for that; which is that 200 years ago everybody was poor。 A relatively small part of the world achieved what the economists call a modern economic growth。 Those countries represent only about one…sixth of humanity; and five…sixths of humanity is what we call the developing world。 It's the vast majority of the world。 The gap can be 100…1; maybe a gap of 30;000 per person and 300 per person。 And that's absolutely astounding to be on the same planet and to have that extreme variation in material well being。
JEFFREY SACHS经济学教授,哈佛大学:今天的世界比历史上任何时候都不平等。这种现象的背后有一个基本的原因:200年以前,所有的人都很贫穷。相对数目较小的一部分人实现了被经济学家称之为现代经济增长的目标。那些国家世界人口的六分之一,而其余六分之五的人口就是发展中世界。他们占世界人口的绝大部分。他们之间的收入差距可能达到100…1,即人均收入30;000 和人均收入 300这样的差距。在同一个星球上居住的人们有如此之大的收入差距物质财富的悬殊实在令人感到吃惊。
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Chapter 19: Capitalism Redefined '7:00'
第十九章: 资本主义被重新定义
HERNANDO DE SOTO; Founder and Director; Institute for Liberty and Democracy; Peru: The problem that's happened over these last years is that somehow or other people who are capitalists in countries like the United States considered the real interlocutors are rich people from developing countries; so they've been touching the wrong constituency。 The constituency of capitalism has always been poor people that are outside the system。 Capitalism is essentially a tool for poor people to prosper。
HERNANDO DE SOTO;创始人和主任自由民主协会,秘鲁:过去几年发生的问题是:美国等资本主义国家的人们认为发展中国家中的富人才是他们的对话者,因此,他们一直在接触错误的群体。资本主义的支持者一直是那些这个体系之外的贫穷人口,而从根本上说,资本主义是使贫穷人口富起来的工具。
NARRATOR: Hernando de Soto is one of the most original economists in the developing world。 An advisor to Mexico; Peru; Egypt; and other countries; he seeks to cut through the old debate about wealth and poverty and reinvent capitalism in the name of the poor。
旁白:Hernando de Soto是发展中国家最有创造性的经济学家之一。作为墨西哥、秘鲁、埃及和其它国家的顾问,他一直致力与打破旧的关于财富和贫困的讨论,并以穷人的名义改造资本主义。
CHARLIE ROSE; Journalist and Talk Show Host: Hernando de Soto has been called the most important economist in the Third World。 He's a champion of market economics and property rights in Latin America。 His new book; The Mystery of Capital; talks about the question of why capitalism triumphs in the West and fails everywhere else。 Wele。
CHARLIE ROSE,记者,谈话节目主持人:Hernando de Soto曾被成为第三世界最重要的经济学家,他是市场经济学和拉丁美洲贫困人口权利的领袖。在他的最新著作《资本的奥秘》里他谈到了为什么资本主义在西方取得胜利而在世界其它地方遭到失败的原因。欢迎。
HERNANDO DE SOTO: So the important thing about a capitalist system is that it's a system of representations。 Therefore it's a little bit like when I go to the United States。 People ask me for my identity; and I say: ";My identity is me。 I mean; look at my face。 I am Hernando de Soto。"; But the man at the ; ";Look; give me your passport。";
HERNANDO DE SOTO:关于资本主义体系有一个重要的问题:资本主义是一个代表制体系。因此,有点儿象我到美国来的时候,人们询问我的身份,我说:“我就是我啊,我是说,看看我的脸,我是Hernando de Soto。”但是美国移民局的人说:“给我看看你的护照。”
The reason that things travel so well in the market economy of the United States; and values travel from one place to another; is because they all have passports。 And the real value is like my identity。 It's not in me; it's in my passport。 Real value to pay the hotel room is not in me; it's in the credit card。 And so what happens is that this system by representation; it requires of course that all the representations …… the credit cards; the passports; the IDs; the property titles; and the shares …… be organized by a system of law that allows people to be able to trust what they're dealing with。
美国市场经济运转良好以及商品在各地之间流动顺利的原因是:它们都拥有护照。实际的价值就和我的护照一样,而不在于我自己,我的价值在于我的护照,支付旅店费用的实际价值不在于我自己,而在于我的信用卡。事实是:这个体系是个代表制体系,当然要求所有具有代表作用的事物——信用卡、护照、身份证、财产所有权和股票——由一个法律体系来进行组织,此体系使人们能信任他们正在打交道的人。
NARRATOR: In September 2000; de Soto published his explanation of why capitalism hasn't worked for the poor。 He took his message directly to some of Latin America's most remote regions。
旁白:在2000年9月,de Soto发表了一篇文章,对资本主义制度在穷国不起作用的原因进行了解释,他将他的信息直接带到了一些拉美最偏远的地区。
HERNANDO DE SOTO: The reason I'm going to Cajamarca now is because 12 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and 11 years after Peru adopted pro…market policies; their situation hasn't got much better; and they want to know why。 The Mystery of Capital offers an explanation。 It says that the system per se works in the West; but that in our country; like in much of the Third World; it isn't functioning because we have missed some of the crucial elements that the Westerners added in the 18th and 19th centuries; like property rights; without which the system cannot function。
HERNANDO DE SOTO:我现在要去Cajamarca的原因是:在柏林墙倒塌12年之后,在秘鲁实施了市场政策11年之后,他们的情况没有什么大的好转,他们想知道原因。《资本的奥秘》提供了一种解释:这个体系在西方基本上运作良好,但在我们的国家,和第三世界的大多数地方,这个体系并不能起到作用,
Onscreen caption: Cajamarca; Peru
字幕:Cajamarca; 秘鲁
NARRATOR: De Soto's book had bee the number one bestseller in Peru's history。 And in poor neighborhoods across the country; this economist had bee a celebrity。
旁白:De Soto的书已经成为秘鲁历史上最畅销的书籍,在全国各个贫穷的地区,这位经济学家也成了名人。
De Soto believes that people are capitalists by nature; but that in the developing world; most are locked out of the capitalist system。
De Soto认为人类具有成为资本家的天性,但在第三世界,大多数国家被隔离于资本主义体系之外。
HERNANDO DE SOTO: Peru; like in every other developing and former munist nation; people on the ground; with or without a property law; have basically agreed on the distribution of assets among themselves。 You go to any of the places we've been to …… the hinterland of Egypt; of the Philippines; of Haiti; where there is no official law that is actually in place or being enforced; but there is another law in place: You step on somebody's territory; and somebody es up and says; ";Get off my territory;"; where there's a law or no law。 You walk down the street; and you walk into a garden; and the dog starts barking; and you start finding out that that dog is defending a consensually agreed determination of possession rights throughout a certain area。 So there are property systems in place。 The question; I think; the important thing is that they're illegal。 They're extra…legal; to be more precise。
HERNANDO DE SOTO:在秘鲁,和在任何其他发展中国家和前共产主义国家一样,没有财产法律,人们基本同意他们之间的财产分配方式。你到我们曾经去过的任何地方去——埃及的内陆、菲律宾、海地——那儿实际上没有实施什么官方法律,但是,却奉行另外一种法律:如果你侵入了别人的领地,就有人站出来说:“从我的领地上离开”。不管那儿有没有什么法律。你在街上行走的时候闯进了一个花园,狗就开始狂吠,你发现这条狗在保卫经过公众共同所决定的对某片区域的所有权。因此,那儿存在这一个财产体系。我认为,问题是——重要的一件事是他们的行为是非法的,或者更为确切地说,他们是处在法律之外的。
Onscreen caption: Kilimanjaro; Tanzania
字幕:乞力马扎罗,坦桑尼亚
NARRATOR: In the West; property rights are taken so for granted; they rarely cross our minds。 But in many countries; these crucial ";tools of capitalism"; simply aren't available。
旁白:在西方,财产权被认为是理所当然的,人们很少会怀疑这一点。但是在许多其它国家,这些关键的“资本主义”工具并不存在。
In the foothills of Mt。 Kilimanjaro; Philip Tesha's family has grown coffee for generations。 He sells directly into the global market; yet like many in the developing world; he can't prove that what he owns is actually his。
在乞力马扎罗山的山脚下,Philip Tesha一家世代种植咖啡,他将咖啡直接销往全球市场,但是,和许多生活在发展中国家的人一样,他不能证明他拥有的财产实际上属于他自己。
INTERVIEWER: So who owns the land around here?
访谈者:那么谁拥有附近的土地呢?
PHILIP TESHA; Coffee Farmer; Tanzania: The land is our property。 We brought it from the farmer who was willing to sell to us。 So we brought this land; although we don't hold any title for the ownership。 But it's our property。
PHILIP TESHA; 咖啡种植户,坦桑尼亚:土地是我们的财产,我们从一个愿意出售的农民那里得来的。我们买下了这片土地,虽然我们不拥有所有权,但是,它是我们的财产。
INTERVIEWER: So how can you prove that's your property?
访谈者:那么你怎样能证明这是你的财产呢?
PHILIP TESHA: Because I'm here。 I was the person who brought it; and the person who sold it to me is also around here。
PHILIP TESHA:因为我就在这里啊。我就是买下它的人,出售这片地的人也在附近。
HERNANDO DE SOTO: So what we've been discovering is that there's a real huge paper wall that stops the poor from actually being able to develop private legal enterprise。
HERNANDO DE SOTO: 因此,我们已经发现的是:存在着一个实际的、巨大的纸墙阻挡着穷人,使他们不能发展合法的私有企业。
NARRATOR: Without property rights; ordinary people in developing countries can't get a loan; a
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